hangnail
"Hangnail! Hangnail! Get me my wheelchair!"

The Associated Press: The Heat snapped their three-game losing streak with a homecourt blowout of the Washington Wizards Generals...a team that entered the game 5-10 overall and 0-7 on the road. Impressive, right? Am I right?

Yeah.

Anyway, I love this opening to the AP recap: "LeBron James and Erik Spoelstra had a pregame meeting Monday afternoon to talk about Miami's offensive woes. Early returns suggest it was a productive chat."

What...because the Heat scored 105 points on 45 percent shooting? That's productive? For a team featuring LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh? Facing a depressing Generals squad that came in ranked 26th in Defensive Rating and was without John Wall (bruised right knee), Al Thornton (ankle) and Ji Jianlian (knee)?

Talk about lowered expectations.

I should also give a special shoutout to ESPN Stats and Information for the following: "The Heat stepped up their transition defense on Monday, in the process outscoring the Wizards 21-8 in transition." We are then treated to a table indicating that Washington scored only 8 points on 37.5 percent shooting and committed 3 turnovers in transition.

I'm sure the absence of Wall had nothing to do with that.

Anyway, it just feels like the media wants us to get all excited that the Heat finally won a game against a crappy team. Yes, yes, I get it. Blowing out bad teams matters. It's a good thing, too, because Miami's next two games are against the Pistons and Cavaliers. So I boldly predict a three-game winning streak and 17.4 tons worth of drool from the Associated Press and other media outlets...

...and plenty of vomit among NBA fans.

That said, there was at least one NBA fan who was feelin' the Heat last night. The Other Chris said: "I'd like to thank the NBA, ESPN and whoever else makes the national television schedule for fellating the Nazgul as the feature game. This means I get to watch New Orleans/Oklahoma City game on League Pass instead of it being blacked out, as it would be any in any sane universe, as it is the vastly superior basketball game. Thanks, LeDouche!"

Associated Press, unintentionally dirty quote machine: "Wade's personal spurt ended with 3:17 left in the period..."

Hilton Armstrong versus Joel Anthony and Juwan Howard: I know I should take something like this more seriously, but come on. It looks like something out of a Three Stooges short. And isn't it amazing how easily NBA players go down these days? They're like a bunch of Bop-a-Clowns.


Said Armstrong: "I wasn't really trying to hurt him or anything like that, I just didn't want him to have any easy dunk or an easy lay-up. You clearly saw he lost his balance when he was in the air. I didn't mean to hit him that hard, but he fell. I went to go try to help him out, but then Howard came and pushed me in the back."

Added Erik Spoelstra: "I think it's great."

I don't know about great, Erik. But bawful? Absolutely.

Dwyane Wade and the Miami broadcasting team: An anonymous reader said:

This actually just happened, no exaggeration.

After Dwyane Wade airballed a dunk attempt (hereafter known as "pulling a Joel Anthony"), the Miami announcers came back with this gem. "That hangnail is really bothering him".

I've been laughing for the past 2 minutes. Bawful in it's purest form right there.
It's true. According to one report: "Dwyane Wade briefly left Monday's win over Washington with what the Heat called a hang nail. He returned wearing tape on his left wrist and could not get into any kind of rhythm early on in the game."

I'm surprised the medical staff didn't bring out the wheelchair.

For the record, WebMD defines a hangnail as "the strip of skin that separates from the side of the cuticle."

Simple home treatment can help prevent problems with hangnails:

Do not pull at or bite off a hangnail. This may cause the skin to rip.

Clip off the hangnail neatly with sharp, clean cuticle scissors.

Massage hand lotion or cream into your cuticles 2 to 3 times each day.

STOP BEING A DAMN VAGINA!!
Sadly, I don't have video of Wade's blown dunk. I do have this tho':


And because Sorbo provided the link, here's one of the great airballed dunks in the history of Western Civilization:


The New Orleans Hornets: Make it four losses in their last five games. I won't say the ship be sinkin'...but it's definitely dropped temporary anchor in the Sea of Suck.

The Hornets actually played some pretty stiff defense -- holding the Thunder to 95 points on 37 percent shooting -- but they were pounded on the boards (56-36 and 16-5 on the offensive glass) and simply ran out of gas during the fourth quarter. Over those final 12 minutes, the Thunder used a 14-0 run to outscore New Orleans 27-19.

Said Hornets coach Monty Williams: "I thought we competed our tails off tonight on the road in a tough back-to-back. The ball didn't go down. It happens in this league."

You know what else happens in this league?


And man, how about that Russell Westbrook, huh? The line: 25 points, 11 assists, 5 steals. And he scored 12 of the points in OKC's 14-o fourth quarter run. That's right, it was Westbrook -- and not Kevin Durant -- who took over in clutch time for the Thunder. And as ESPN Stats and Information pointed out: "He is averaging almost 24 points a game, and along with LeBron James, is the only player in the NBA averaging 20 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists."

This truly is the Age of the Point Guard.

Monty Williams, quote machine: Regarding Westbrook's various miscues with the basketball: "He had eight turnovers, but I thought it worked in his favor."

Russell Westbrook, quote machine: "Whatever the game tells me to do, that's kind of what I do."

But...but what if the game tells you to kill mommy and daddy with lawn darts? I would suggest selective listening, Russell. Can a game that made Greg Ostertag a multi-millionaire be trusted? I say no.

The Houston Rockets: I know they were playing on the second night of back-to-backs after a gritty win over the Thunder. And I know the Mavericks were playing at home and, frankly, are one of the best teams in the league right now. And of course Aaron Brooks and Yao Ming are still out. But damn, this team is starting to depress me.

Dirk Nowitzki, unintentionally dirty quote machine: "When a guy is hot like that, you've got to milk it."

Rick Carlisle, coach of the year candidate: From the AP recap:

Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle wasn't calling plays during the third-quarter stretch. All of Butler's points came in what the Mavs call a "flow" offense.

"When a guy gets going, our guys do a good job of finding him," Carlisle said. "We aren't doing a lot of play-calling right now."
The Milwaukee Bucks: Ugh. The Deer were without Andy Bogut (sore back), Drew Gooden (foot), Corey Maggette (flu-like symptoms!) and Carlos Delfino (birthing a human-alien hybrid from his stomach). As a result, the biggest deficit the Jazz had to overcome in this one was two points. They did, however, build a 24 point lead before kicking back and cruising in for a 109-88 win.

Said Deron Williams: "Any time you play a team that's missing a lot of guys, it can be a dangerous game because youo expect to win, you know you should win. But at the same time it's the NBA and these are NBA players. They played hard. They were just a scrappy team tonight."

Yeah, well, Team Scrappy got outshot 55 percent to 34 percent, outrebounded 48-26 and outscored 54-18 in the paint. The Bucks should thank their stars and garters Utah committed 20 turnovers or they might have scrapped their way to a 40-point loss.

On the bright side, Chris Douglas-Roberts scored a season-high 19 points and Ersan Ilyasova added a season-high 18.

By the way, ya think the Jazz have adapted to Al Jefferson and vice versa? Last night, Big Al had 20 points on 11-for-14 shooting to go along with 11 rebounds and 4 blocked shots. Speaking of which...

Al Jefferson, quote machine: "When we want to, we can play defense."

Of course, that's always been the case with Jefferson. He's just never, you know, wanted to before. But now he knows Jerry Sloan will kick his ass if he doesn't D up. Makes a difference.

John Salmons, Worst Player of the Night: Remember how Salmons caught fire when he was traded to the Bucks right before the deadline? Yeah, well, the Bulls had the same experience the previous season. The Fish Man had been red hot when Chicago dealt for him the previous February and then started the season on ice. Well, he went 1-for-11 against the Jazz last night and 36 percent on the season.

Check out his splits from last season. He's pretty much on target for his early season production. Or lack thereof. And considering how key Salmons was to Milwaukee's late-season run last season, it's not hard to understand why they've been struggling to score points (30th in both PPG and Offensive Rating) and win games.

On that subject, last night I was at the doctor's office and they had the Sports Illustrated NBA Preview issue in the waiting room. SI expected the Bucks to control the Central Division this season...even though Corey Maggette, Drew Gooden and John Salmons made up three-fifths of Milwaukee's projected starting lineup.

And all I could think was: "Has anyone at SI actually followed the these guys' careers?"

Look, I know the Bucks have had some injuries and illness or whatever. But they're 6-11 overall, 2-7 on the road, and currently scraping the bottom of their division. Scott Skiles can work minor miracles with crap rosters, and he'll probably scream this group of misfits back up to .500-ish at some point.

I'm just not Fearin' the Deer is all I'm saying.

Al Jefferson, quote machine: "They were short tonight, but that's a great team."


Andre Kirilenko, quote machine: "You've seen the Energizer Bunny. [Earl Watson and Ronnie Price] are our Energizer Bunnies. They come on the floor and give us a big spark on offense and defense. They are amazing."

Huh. I wonder if The Russian Rifle wants to use his once-a-year deal for an amazing night with Price and Watson.

Tracy McGrady, unintentionally dirty quote machine: Basketbawful reader Wade Wisdom e-mailed this instant classic Knee-Mac quote: "That guy might be getting off, but the other guy [isn't]." If you demand context, here it is.

Basketbawful reader zyth also left that quote in the BAD comments and noted that McGrady even used to make porn faces.

Bonus Bawful: Basketbawful reader Mark L. e-mailed me a link to this video and has officially nominated it to become "Bawful: The Song."


Chris' Lacktion Report:

Generals-Heat: Looks like Eddie House will get to have fun time in South Beach, after collecting 1.7 trillion in play money (1:43)!

Rockets-Mavs: Ishmael Smith smoothed out trans-Texas relations by giving the ball away to Dallas once in 7:34 for a +1 suck differential.

Brian Cardinal bricked once from Fountain Place in 6:28 and also took a foul for a +2.

Bucks-Jazz: Kyrylo Fesenko improvised a foul in 5:45 for a +1 and a 1:0 Madsen-level Voskuhl.

Labels: ,

60 Comments:
Blogger Dan B. said...
"I won't say the ship be sinkin'...but it's definitely dropped temporary anchor in the Sea of Suck" gets my vote for best line of the season thus far on this blog.

Blogger Cortez said...
"Sadly, I don't have video of Wade's blown dunk. I do have this tho':"

I implore you to look at that video again.

That's not a travel, although I see why someone would think it is at first glance o not understanding the travel rule.

His dribble doesn't "end" until he grabs the ball with both of his hands which happens AFTER he hops in the air on his left foot (which the video is mistakingly labeling his first step). He still had the option of dribbling at that point (after the left foot hop). That's a legal move that is specifically drilled on in a lot of skill camps.

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
I'm surprised the Heat fans even knew to clap at the word "ejected".

Downloading the Turkoglu song first thing tonight.

Blogger Murcy said...
so, does the game speak throught the ball? (BALL!) or the hoops? or how does it tell westbrook what to do?

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
More Heat talk: Stats to back up what pretty much everyone already knows - Eyeballing the lineups the Heat have thrown out there, the best production has generally been Wade alone or LeBron alone, and the worst production has generally been with both of them on the floor.

Blogger Murcy said...
@AnacondaHL - holy shit a lineup with chalmers, aroyyo and house and at -200... did they all play for the clippers at some point?? (house did if I remember correctly)

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
Murcy - Click on the word (unit) and you can see who they played against and what happened (I know, the site rules even if it isn't that aesthetically pleasing).

In the lineup you mentioned, it was against the Wizards's Arenas, Gilbert - Young, Nick - Martin, Cartier - Booker, Trevor - Seraphin, Kevin lineup, likely garbage time.

Blogger Andrei said...
The rebirth of Derrick Coleman begins: http://blogs.sacbee.com/sports/kings/archives/2010/11/dmcs-exit-evans.html . I don't think any of us are surprised.

Anonymous Czernobog said...
Damn, that song made me want to stand up and salute the banner.

Cortez: I may be wrong, but I think it wouldn't have been a travel if Wade had landed on both feet and jumped off both. As it was, he landed on his left, took a step and lifted off his right.

Anonymous Patrick said...
"Anyway, it just feels like the media wants us to get all excited that the Heat finally won a game against a crappy team."

Sure, that's right. It's fair to say that the media wanted everyone to hyperventilate about them when they dropped a few games, too. And before that, the media wanted everyone to buy into the Lebron-Wade-Bosh hype, even though these three men would have to *really* adjust to playing together because of their talent.

Accurate, even-keeled reactions don't exactly attract views, you know? Which, you know, is why I read this site daily.

Blogger Cortez said...
" As it was, he landed on his left, took a step and lifted off his right."

The sequence of steps/footplants was left-left-right.

At the first left step he hops in the air with his left hand clearly on top of he ball (i.e. he still has the option of dribbling again).

Therefore, despite jumping in the air off of the first left step, his dribble is still "alive".

While he is in the air he then gathers the ball with both hands and lands on his left foot. This is where the 1-2 count legally starts, not on the first left foot step. He then steps, and jumps, off the right foot. The right foot is the second count.

The confusion seems to be that he didn't dribble again after the first left foot step. This is irrelevant as, by any definition, his dribble is still alive up to the point he gathers the ball while both feet are off the ground. If both feet are off the groud when you end the dribble the 1-2 count doesn't start until a foot touches the ground.

In theory I could dribble the length of the court hopping on one foot and no one could call anything because my dribble is still "alive" the whole time.

Well, I suppose they could call me an idiot, but that isn't a basketbal violation.
By my personal (unofficial) stats the guy who runs the site that that link is posted from is about 50/50 on his numerous travel complaints.

...just like the real refs!

Blogger Drake said...
Cortez:

The problem with the video is that Hardwood Paroxysm is trying to combine two different traveling violations here. Depending on how you see it, Wade may have take 2 steps, or he may have take 3 steps. So for argument's sake, let's just say he legally took two steps after he stopped his dribble.

So what's the problem now? Weirdly enough, although they confuse the viewer by counting steps, HP states it clear-as-day afterwards at the 43 second mark: "An offensive player with the ball may not hop consecutively on the same foot upon ending his dribble"

See here for more details:
NBA Video Rule Book - Hop Travel

It's a rather obscure rule that Henry Abbott had to point out to me. But it exists nevertheless.

And more importantly here, it's not the first time that Wade has traveled in this fashion. If you remember Bawful's "Superstar moves" post a couple of years back, one of the videos showed Wade switching his pivot foot in one of his spin-move drives. Same move, different name....except I believe Wade actually traveled without a doubt in that video.

So it's not really something new here - Wade clearly has been getting away with this move for a long time.

Anonymous DocRostov said...
I'm pretty sure that's the best song of all time. There will never be a better one.

Blogger Cortez said...
"An offensive player with the ball may not hop consecutively on the same foot upon ending his dribble"

"UPON ENDING HIS DRIBBLE" (caps only for highlighting purposes)

Again, here's the mistake you guys are making. His dribble has not ended at the point of the first left foot hop. His dribble is STILL ALIVE up until the point he gathers the ball while both feet are IN THE AIR.

HP is posting a small portion of he rule and at the same time misinterpreting part of that small portion.

Here is the entire rule book...

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/pdf/2.0/sect/officiating/Official_NBA_Rule_Rook_2010-11.pdf

Section XIII (traveling) is very clear in regards to when the 1-2 count begins.

This is not not travel despite his deep history of traveling violations.

HP makes this same mistake on a consistent basis.

Blogger stephanie g said...
This is a good video overview of the last decade of bawful that is the Knicks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR6YL2z0hZE

It's only missing that one Z-Bo possession and Marbury's "take it to another level" speech.

Blogger Cortez said...
Drake, I just looked at that Henry Abbott link.

Those are all traveling violations as posted. The differnce between those and this Wade video is that they gather the ball (END THE DRIBBLE) while the foot is on the ground. This makes that foot the pivot foot and/or the first count in a 1-2 count.

They are bums attempting an advanced move without the requisite skill or timing.

Wade, however, ends his dribble with both feet off the ground. Therefore he has established neither a pivot foot nor the first count in the 1-2 sequence.

Take a look a Section XIII on traveling in the rule book. It's pretty clear on when the 1-2 count starts if both feet are off the ground.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
Take a look a Section XIII on traveling in the rule book. It's pretty clear on when the 1-2 count starts if both feet are off the ground.

Yeah, it's true. As weird as Wade's move looked on video...

...it's not a travel.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to work on my one-foot hop.

Blogger Cortez said...
"Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to work on my one-foot hop."

Fuck that noise jack. I'm off to work on discretly traveling then acting like I didn't!

Anonymous Czernobog said...
I stand corrected, and a little wiser.

Anonymous The Other Chris said...
Guys, guys, can we stop all of this "rule" discussion and get back to bashing LeBron and/or Kobe? I'm confused and frightened by the lack of Lakers/Heat criticism in the comments section.

Also I'd like to point out that Russell Westbrook can jump really, really, really high.

Anonymous Don Mølse said...
Another day another Wojnarowski rant at Lebron: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lebronspoelstra112910

anybody figure if these claims are true or Woj is just over the top in his full frontal lebron hate?

Blogger Sorbo said...
The Wade travel should have been called. Yes, technically, he did not travel, as he didn't gather the ball until after the hop, but this may be a situation where the rule should be honored in the spirit in was intended to be honored. You could easily argue that he technically picked up his dribble before he took that first left-footed step, since his last dribble happened when his right foot was on the ground. Either way, looks like Wade is adopting his own version of the crab-dribble.

Reminds me of a guy I used to play pick-up games with. He would get in the post and roll the ball under a defender's legs, only to pick it back up on the other side of the defender for a lay-up. Technically, he called it a dribble, but in reality, it was passing to himself (since he rolled it and didn't dribble it). He did it so often that people stopped believing it was a violation and just accepted it. Even I stopped calling him out on it, because I was tired of getting into yelling matches with him every time I played. I think a similar thing happens with NBA refs. They just see the same bs move so often (especially with travel calls), they just stop calling it and accept the move as legit.

Blogger Sorbo said...
Sorry Kings fans, but looks like Cousins may be a problem, according to Insider. He was thrown out of practice yesterday. I don't know what to make of this Westphal quote: "It was a necessary move in our continued attempt to help him develop."

Or, to take Paul's words and twist them around: "Get the f--k out of here and go develop somewhere else."

Blogger Dan B. said...
Does anyone else find the traveling rules incredibly difficult to see at speed? Whenever someone drives to the hoop, I have absolutely zero clue if they're traveled or not. What appears to me to be a travel almost always ends up being completely legal. Maybe that's why uninformed NBA haters always complain that NBA players constantly get away with charging...

Blogger Basketbawful said...
This is a good video overview of the last decade of bawful that is the Knicks.

GOD. I miss those days.

Anonymous Czernobog said...
@Don Mølse: I don't need any encouragement to hate LeBron. I've hated him for years. And I need even less encouragement to hate Maverick Carter.

But Woj is pushing it. "Wade was one of the Team USA players who’d watch incredulously as James would throw a bowl of fries back at a renowned chef and bark, “They’re cold!”"

This story about a renowned chef making fries doesn't pass muster. Even if he was Polish.

Anonymous Czernobog said...
Wait, no, Wade and James played together in the Olympics, not the world championship.

Are cold fries a thing in China? I wouldn't put it past them.

Blogger Cortez said...
"The Wade travel should have been called. Yes, technically, he did not travel,"

Wow.

The call was (not) made in the full "spirit of the rule".

The reason that move is effective is because Wade skillfully keeps his dribble alive (that's the key point) while looking like he is about to go into a 1-2 stop or jump. A defender typically over reacts to the foot plant and hop, totally ignoring the fact that he hasn't stopped his dribble. This is a common move that is trained on. Some coaches don't train it because it's an advanced move and people commonly mistake it for a travel(!) because at a high speed it looks like a travel (courtesy of Dan B.)

The two foot in the air rule is there for good reason and is applicable off the catch also.

James' "Crab" dribble doesn't compare because.

a) He took four(!) steps and it was clearly a travel by any count once he picked the ball up.
b) It wasn't even a fucking "crab" dribble to begin with.

"He would get in the post and roll the ball under a defender's legs, only to pick it back up on the other side of the defender for a lay-up."

Hate to break it to you but...

That's legal also.

The actual problem in this instance is that whoever is guarding this guy is so slow that his man can actually roll the ball between his legs, go around him, bend down to get the ball off the floor and score.

All while being in the lane!!!

Give me a break.

If you're wondering why no one does this in a real game despite it being legal, the answer is simple. It would be a turnover (steal) if you are playing with anyone who isn't rooted into the ground, retarded, and over the age of 2.

Blogger Drake said...
Czernobog:

They played together in the 2006 World Championships as well as the 2008 Olympics; they finished 3rd in 2006.

Cortez:

I have to agree with your "gather" POV on traveling because I really can't dispute it otherwise. For the longest time, the hardest part for me in determining travels has been when to call that first step after the dribble. I think that looking for the "gather" is a good way to make those calls. Thanks for the help on that.

But this brings up another question: does that mean it's technically legal to take one dribble, and then take 5 really quick steps before the next dribble, provided you didn't break any dribbling rules? Probably, but it sure will look really awkward.

Anonymous JJ said...
I'm getting so many good moves here today. Those people that I ball with better watch out. I'm going to do a crab dribble into a Wade hop step into a rolling the ball on the floor between some guy's legs. I don't even need to finish my shot afterwards because my move will be that awesome.

Anonymous The Other Chris said...
@Cortez

"Again, here's the mistake you guys are making. His dribble has not ended at the point of the first left foot hop. His dribble is STILL ALIVE up until the point he gathers the ball while both feet are IN THE AIR."

How can someone's dribble be alive if they don't dribble again? If someone is "dribbling" without actually, ya know, dribbling, then they're carrying the ball or travelling, innit?

I mean, so if I pretend like I might dribble again, I can take as many steps as I want with the ball in my hand? That's basically what you seem to be arguing, and it would seem to be flagrantly illegal. My understanding of a travel, that I was taught growing up, and the common-sense understanding that the overwhelming majority of basketball fans have, is X number of steps after your last dribble. Your last ACTUAL dribble, not a theoretical dribble that could have occurred but you changed your mind so it occurred only in another quantam universe.

tl;dr: If the rule is as you say it is, that is fucking ridiculous and should be changed. IMO.

Blogger zyth said...
@ Czernobog :
what the crap do you mean even if he was polish :D

Anonymous Czernobog said...
@Zyth: Half my family comes from Poland, and what I experienced of the cuisine is freaking horrifying. No offense meant, unless you're a gefilte fish.

And for some reason I thought the recent FIBA tournament was in Poland, probably confused it with the Euroleague final four or something.

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
The Other Chris - No, the way you describe it, that's a palmimg violation.

And a dribble has a start, a down, an up, and a stop what is so hard about this.

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
I will point out that there's no limit to the height of a dribble, so you could bounce it really high, take lots of steps, jump and catch it in mid-air, thus the dribble ends, and land with two steps.

Now take away the "really high bounce" part and it's about what Wade did.

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
Also, Nash often does the "many little steps during the down and up of a dribble" and it aggregates people who don't understand the rule.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
Also, Nash often does the "many little steps during the down and up of a dribble" and it aggregates people who don't understand the rule.

It gathers them into a group or mass??

Blogger Mr. Too Nice Guy said...
Can you provide more context on how his dribble isn't technically ended with the first step in the set of three steps he took?

The way I think about is as follows even if it doesn't match exactly with the official rule book:

1. Last Dribble taken (i.e. ball touches floor)
2. Only 2 steps after that point.

Under this set - he clearly takes 3 steps after the last actual dribble.

When is a dribble officially not alive anymore?

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
Surprisingly, that typo also works as unintended =) Like your typos when retyping Avery Johnson quotes

Aggregates aggrivated non-informed basketball watchers, yes.

Anonymous KHayes666 said...
What's the cure for vaginitis? Someone should administer it to Jermaine O'Neal

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
"1. Last Dribble taken (i.e. ball touches floor)"

NO.

Last dribble taken is typically regaining control of the ball, or stopping the ball in your hand/hands, or putting your hand underneath it/palming.

Blogger Mr. Too Nice Guy said...
AnacondaHL:

The way you described a dribble above seems to imply that a dribble doesn't have to touch the ground?

Blogger Mr. Too Nice Guy said...
"Last dribble taken is typically regaining control of the ball, or stopping the ball in your hand/hands, or putting your hand underneath it/palming."

But isn't that what he does before or concurrently with his first of 3 steps?

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
Mr. Too Nice Guy - Uh, duh. Obiviously a dribble can start, then be kicked or something before it comes back up.

x2 - No, Wade doesn't have control of the ball until after that first step, as he's bringing the ball to hold it with both hands.

Blogger Mr. Too Nice Guy said...
"Mr. Too Nice Guy - Uh, duh. Obiviously a dribble can start, then be kicked or something before it comes back up."

But that is my point - the dribble was completed.

"x2 - No, Wade doesn't have control of the ball until after that first step, as he's bringing the ball to hold it with both hands."

But this is a stupid argument to continue, it seems the commentators and refs are having to split hairs between when he has control.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
This line from the official NBA rulebook should (I hope) clear up the question of how a player gains control:

"A player who receives the ball while in progress or upon completing his dribble is allowed a one-two count after gathering the ball and preparing to stop, pass or shoot."

As Cortez pointed out way early on, Wade was between his supposed first step in the video and his second step while "gathering the ball and preparing to stop, pass or shoot."

Wade's dribble doesn't end when the ball is close to his hand or even when it contacts his hand. It's not until he actually gathers it to take some sort of action that the dribble ends.

Blogger Mr. Too Nice Guy said...
Basketbawful -

"Wade's dribble doesn't end when the ball is close to his hand or even when it contacts his hand. It's not until he actually gathers it to take some sort of action that the dribble ends."

Appreciate the clarification.

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
...I hope you realized that clarification was confirming it was mostly you being stupid to continue the argument, rather than the argument itself being stupid to continue...

Anonymous AK Dave said...
All of this hair-splitting over whether or not he had control, what is a "dribble," when was he "gathering," only serves to highlight the obvious defect in this rule:

It's nearly impossible for a ref to apply in real-time because it requires him to watch hands, feet, ball and player at the same time, while making a judgement call as to whether the dribble has "ended" or whether the player has begun "gathering," and whether or not the same foot has hopped etc etc. Therefore, while this play may be legal by the strict letter of the rulebook, I wouldn't have a problem with a ref calling this a travel in real-time. We are looking at this video multiple times with slow-motion film and from multiple angles. Refs don't have the luxury and calm comfort of hindsight and replay at their disposal during the game.

When reasonable people can disagree as to whether a violation has occurred in real-time, call the travel, I say. Otherwise ballhandling leads down a slippery slope towards outright rugby on the court. We've seen how LePrawn's "crab dribble" was defended by many (namely himself), and if you allow Wade's floaty-hoppy-whatever maneuver here, players might start making a case for other, similar, perhaps less-legal maneuvers.

Blogger Sos said...
All this talk about the rules is not good, not bad, it's a Turkoglu.

BALL!

Blogger Sorbo said...
@Cortez, calm down man. I'm not attacking you, just stating that he breaks the spirit of the travel rule (much like the crab dribble does). Plus, he doesn't jump stop on his drive, he hops on one foot, then brings his right foot down. Yes, he technically gathers himself after still being in the "act of dribbling" on the first left-foot step, but c'mon, he wasn't planning on taking another dribble after the last time the ball hit the ground. As a ref, that's what makes it so hard to call, Wade looks like he's going to dribble, but he has no intention of letting the ball hit the floor again. Add in the speed of these players, and the call becomes harder to make.

Also, intentionally rolling the ball is passing the ball. Don't know how it can be interpreted any other way.

The actual problem in this instance is that whoever is guarding this guy is so slow that his man can actually roll the ball between his legs, go around him, bend down to get the ball off the floor and score.

You had to see it, but this guy had it down, to the point where it was incredibly quick. For this guy, as strange as it sounds, it was one of those nearly unguarded moves. He was like 5'3", so he's already close to the ground. He would post up about 10 feet away from the basket near the baseline, with his pivot foot would be on the baseline side. Then, in one motion, he'd both shift his non-pivot foot towards the defender (becoming square with the basket) to clear space while putting his arm down to roll the ball. Just as he released the ball to roll, he would plant the non-pivot foot and start moving forward and around the defender. He often did it on slower, bigger guys (over 6'3" feet), so those defenders were not low enough to stop the roll, because most of these big (and older) guys stayed somewhat high on this little guy in order to block the shot. Why he rolled it? Probably had something to do with you can roll a ball faster than dribble it down the court. I would tell him that I wouldn't be so pissed if he actually dribbled it (i.e. one bounce), but he refused to do that.

Also, you know how some guys go to the same move 10 times a game. That wasn't this scenario. He was very tactical in using it, like once every other week or once a month. Often enough to bug everyone, but not often enough to expect it.

In some respects I'm in awe on the huge cajones it took to do something he knew would piss everyone off. And the other hand, it was a bullshit move that wasn't legal and it bugged the hell out of me.

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
AK Dave - Of course that's all given, ref suck and all. But if someone is going to utilize their video making to show this non-call, they should probably make sure it actually was a non-call, both for the reasons of actual rules, and your aforementioned real-time reffing issues.

Blogger Cortez said...
"@Cortez, calm down man"

Calm down? How are you measuring my tension level? Probably the same thought process you're using to interpret clearly spelled out rules that you obviously haven't bothered to read before commenting on them then continue to deny although it's been spelled out clearly multiple times by multiple people. By the way, how did you determine the "spirit of the rule". Zombie Naismith?

"Also, intentionally rolling the ball is passing the ball. Don't know how it can be interpreted any other way."

Easy. A dribble is tapping or THROWING the ball to the floor. It doesn't mention ANYTHING about bouncing once. The definition for that is clear also. Doesn't matter what happens after the fact. It's legal in the same way you can throw a bounce pass if you haven't dribbled and go get the ball (and continue dribbling) if your intended receiver misses the ball no one else touches it either. The miscued pass becomes the first dribble.

There is no hair splitting happening. Only a group of people who have very little idea of the actual rules of basketball.

As for Wade's "intention" of not dribbling again. Who cares? The point is HE COULD DRIBBLE AGAIN! In fact, the counter move to a defender cutting you off in anticipation of the pick up is to

...DRIBBLE AGAIN!

"it was a bullshit move that wasn't legal and it bugged the hell out of me."

The move, like Wade's dribble, IS legal. Your clarification is even worse than before.

A 5'3 guy posting up someone a foot taller than he was, 10' from the basket (on the baseline) with only 1 direction to go in is able to roll the ball between his defender's legs, get around him gather the ball and score?

All that means is...that defender is terrible, his teammates are even worse (if that's even possible), but that "move" is legal.

A 5'3" guy posting up baseline side 10' from the basket and scoring (repeatedly).

Priceless.

Minority Report refs. Even better.

I'm done.

Blogger Cortez said...
"AK Dave - Of course that's all given, ref suck and all"

It's becoming clear that the refs don't really "suck" as much as people don't know or understand the actual rules.

The problem isn't that the rules are unnecessarily complex either. The rules are pretty clear, in all cases I've seen, if you can read (and comprehend) above a grade school level, that is.

According to some of these guys, your dribble ends at the point you think about shooting despite the fact that you are legally able to dribble again. Really?

Blogger Sorbo said...
Cortez, I wish I could show you video of this guy and how he did it, because it was interesting to watch. The ball never dribbled or bobbled or bounced on the ground. It was flat on the ground. He did it quickly, but literally the ball never bounced, it was a pure roll. I'm not sure how someone can roll it, run three feet, pick it up, and no one consider that to be a pass to oneself. You can tell me all about how it technially could be bouncing, but it didn't...it rolled like a bowling ball. Like I said, if it bounced, I'd have no issue with it, but he rolled it. That's not a dribble, or a pass miscue, it was intentionally rolling the ball to pick it up down the court and shoot. It was amazing and infuriating to watch.

As for Wade, I don't disagree with you that what he did is legal, I was merely pointing out how Wade doesn't intend to dribble it again. That his motion is merely that: motion to make the ref think he will dribble again so that he can get an extra step. You may think that it's meaningless to debate intent versus action, but I think it's important. If he's purposely going through a motion, but doesn't intend to complete that motion, isn't that bending the rule a bit? I agree with you, he's not breaking it, but he is going against the intent of the rule. Then again, more power to him for knowing how to skirt it.

Anonymous Czernobog said...
Sweet lady justice. The paella of defeat is served... back to the elder Gasol.

Also, Moped Ellis with a three point shooting foul on Manu compounded by a tech. The rare four point shooting foul. With 3 seconds on the game clock to end the 1st quarter.

Anonymous Sorbo said...
@Cortez, I missed that last comment grade school level and all that. Look, I apologize for saying "Cool down" as it was not said in the manner in which I wrote it. Unfortunately, I didn't pick my words properly, and I feel like you may be attacking me based on it. Sorry, I didn't mean to antagonize you, I just wanted to understand your interpretation of the rules. Because the argument we're having is on the interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves.

But let me be clear on one thing: Don't assume you know me, when you don't. Don't assume you know my friends and my teammates, because you don't. I know the rules, I'm just open to debating them without cutting the other person down. I try not to assume anything about you, nor did I assume your basketball knowledge, but I want to know why you interpret things the way you do, because I like to have civil conversations about basketball. And not conversations that turn into: "Screw you." " No, Screw you!"

But don't pretend that rules in basketball (or any sport) are hard and set. Game 7 or the NBA Finals is not officiated the same way that Game 7 of the NBA Season. You're probably a pretty good pick-up player, I imagine you don't call a foul every time a guy touches you while shooting, but if you kept that hard line stance on rules, you would. I don't know your take on it, but I genuinely think that these rules should be discussed. If they are not debated, then we don't end up with things like a three-point line, or a wider key, or an 8-second violation instead of a 10-second violation, or elimination of hand checks, or semi-zone defenses, or 24-second clocks, or two steps instead of three steps (or one step), or jump stops, or, god help us, crab dribbles.

Again, I apologize. Please take this in the spirit that it is intended to be taken. Not as an attack on you personally, but as a lively discussion on these facets of the game.

Anonymous Flud said...
I dribbled on my keyboard while falling asleep reading these comments. woke up....fell asleep again. Did I travel? nope. still in the same spot

WV : surse. probably something to do with nurses

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
BTW, if he's rolling it by putting his hand under the ball, the dribble has stopped, so you could call the double dribble or whatever.

Blogger Cortez said...
"BTW, if he's rolling it by putting his hand under the ball, the dribble has stopped,"

@AnacondaHL: He's saying the post guy never started dribbling in the first place.

This 5' 3" post guy receives a pass in the short corner, does not dribble, and then rolls the ball through the defenders legs.

I can toss the ball underhanded to start dribbling if I want to. The reason no one does it is because it's obviously stupid, serves no purpose, and would obviously be turnover prone. (unless you're a 5'3" post player, I guess)

"Again, I apologize."

No, apology needed. I'm not "upset" with you or anyone else. And you're right, the basketball discussion is worth it (especially if you're life is as empty as mine!).

If anything, I'm deeply baffled as to why you think if he "planned" on not dribbling again after the first step is relevant at all? The only things that matter are that he could legally dribble again at that point and the 1-2 count had not started. And the counter move off of that skip-step when defensive cut-off is made is to DRIBBLE again (which is LEGAL). This is a common move.

He's not skirting the rule or the breaking the spirit of the rule. It's no different than any other ball/body fake anyone would use.

"I imagine you don't call a foul every time a guy touches you while shooting, but if you kept that hard line stance on rules, you would"

No, I do not and I would not.

In large part because the rules on fouls are not even remotely as narrow as you are claiming. In fact, the rule on fouls clearly state that all contact is not automatically considered a foul.

You're making the same mistake you are making with the travel rule. either you've been taught wrong or have not bother to even understand the rules in the first place.

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